"Conversation should be pleasant without scurrility, witty without affectation, free without indecency, learned without conceitedness, novel without falsehood."
one day
Published on September 2, 2004 By Sally jacobs In Philosophy
I am going to die, one day whether it be today, tomorrow or sixty years down the line. I will die. This concept used to scare the hell out of me, I mean where do you go, what happens? Is that it, nothingness for eternity. I don't have religious beliefs. I don't believe in certain things, because the truth is, I don't really know. I don't know what will happen till I die. To believe I will return to earth in another capacity is just not possible. Because though it could possibley happen, I just think it's something to make me feel better. That it's a comforting hand on my shoulder, but I'm not filling myself with things that might not be true. Forget that. I'd rather face the harsh reality, that it is something i don't know, and face the fear that goes with that, and I have done. I've been scared with the thought of it, I have feared it, and now I have accepted it. I am not scared of death. I am not scared of dying. I know it's going to happen one day, and I accept it.

I am scared of losing people around me. Their deaths I haven't quite accepted just yet. I have only really dealt with the death of someone close to me once. My grandparents died when I was very young, so I didn't have to deal with that. When I was nine my cousin died. He was fourteen. Even at nine years old, I knew that was a huge waste of a life. He used to babysit me. I looked up to him quite a bit. He went to the beach with his Dad and brothers. It was the summer holidays. Someone had dug a big hole in the sand, and my cousin climbed in it, and dug some more. The hole started to collapse in on him, until it was impossible for him to get out. My uncle clawed at the sand with his hands. It was to late my cousin was dead. At his funeral the thing that was most upsetting looking back, was his school friends. He went to a catholic school, most of my family are pretty religious. They were all there in school uniform their whole lives in front of them, but that was it for him, over. Incredibley sad. My Uncle never dealt with the guilt, he disappeared. He died a few years later. He never returned to being the person he was before my cousin died. Upon finding out that my cousin was dead, his Mum, had a huge nervous breakdown. It took her a long time to recover. She did though, in her own way. She had another baby very soon after, and named him after my cousin. For some reason that always creeped me out. I was nine, so dealing with it wasn't really a huge thing. One day he was there, and one day he wasn't. I missed him at first, but life went on, for me at least.

I think now about how I would deal with the death of someone I loved. I don't honestly know, I don't think I would handle it very well. I'm not good at showing emotion at the best of times. How is it I can accept my death, but not the death of those I love? I would be angry they were taken away from me. Heartbroken at all the things I hadn't said to them. I'd cry where no one could see me. How do you cope when your world is built around someone, and then they are cruely taken away from you? My Auntie didn't really mourn my Uncle when he died. She'd done it along time before. His spirit died with my cousin. She knew where it was heading. Is it easier when you're prepared for it? So you don't have that shock? Or is it worse just waiting for it to happen. Feeling helpless, wishing you could do something to help. At least you can say all the things you want to. Make peace. I think about what would happen if my sister died. We don't speak anymore, and if she went, with me feeling like this towards her, the guilt would eat me up. Is that good enough reason to make peace with her, or is it just selfish? I say I don't want her in my life, but I like to have the choice. For her to be just taken away from me, would break my heart. Just like it would for anyone I loved.

At times like that I'm sure having beliefs really helps. As long as it doesn't make you question them, the beliefs should make you strong. Should give you reason and hope. I always think that, that religion must be such a strong attribute to have. Not for me, to take on religion like that would be like marrying a man I didn't love. Getting all the securities, but not giving myself fully to it, not fully trusting it. I would feel like I was cheating. Looking for an easy way out. Looking for some hope, but not really believing it. I couldn't do that. Maybe I shouldn't compare religion to a marriage. I just think it's something you give yourself totally too. Total commitment. I have great respect for people that do. That their beliefs are that strong. Mine aren't though. I believe in myself. I believe I have guidance. Of course. I just don't know what that is. Maybe one day I will find out. Who knows what will happen. I know we can't live our lives scared of death. Because it will catch us sooner or later. We just need to embrace it with no regrets.

Comments (Page 2)
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on Sep 07, 2004
Wow, Andy, I am also very intrigued. Don't be embarrassed, I'd be grateful if you could explain further. I especially like what you said about the challenges. I don't really have belief, but I have hope, and that's a start right?
on Sep 07, 2004
I’m embarrassed because I don’t normally speak about this, and it seemed so, well, out of place. It also sounded authoritative, which just isn’t me.

But How do you know this.........can you explain more extensively


Crusader, the answer to that question might not completely satisfy you. “Because I know”, or “Because God let me know” isn’t going to cut much mustard. So I'll try to give you as much detail as I can.

Psychic gifts come in many different forms. Some psychics can see spirits who have passed over, because their sight is attuned to a high vibrational frequency, (i.e. to the wavelength upon which Spirit and Heaven exists). Other psychics can converse with spirits from the Other Side, because their sixth sense is attuned to that of telepathy. These are the traditional psychics. Many people like to be sceptical about them because a lot of frauds have been caught out over the centuries. However, just because there are frauds out there, (most of whom are in it for the money, or simply for the attention), doesn’t mean that there aren’t genuine psychics out there too. Psychics who are more modest with their gifts, and who may use them for compassionate purposes, are the ones who wouldn’t get much attention, especially from the media.

Other psychics, such as myself, have a sixth-sense in the form of intuition or acute spiritual awareness. We don't usually have as many experiences of a 'sensational' kind, as the traditional psychics would claim to have. With that said, I have actually met a spirit from the Other Side, and have since come to believe that he was my spirit guide. I was lying in bed awake, and whilst I knew my head was lying on the pillow, I felt my awareness rise up above my body. I was able to look around the room. It was such a strange sensation, because my head was still on the pillow. I saw a light around my body, which seemed to be coming from above me. I looked to the side of my bed, and saw a bloke standing there. His form was visible only by a radiant light, and he didn’t seem completely physical. He was an old guy, with a warm, friendly face. I was in that state of awareness only for about 5 minutes. After that, I snapped back into my body, and was looking out from my ‘own head’ again. I could no longer see the bloke by my bed, and my body felt as heavy as lead in comparison to my previous state.

My intuition and spiritual awareness has evolved and matured over time. (I'm 32 now). By the age of 15, I knew that God exists. Lots of people do, of course. But I 'knew'-knew. I also knew that we exist on earth for a purpose. I wasn’t sure what that purpose was. I just knew there was a deeper purpose to life. Over the years, the details of my model of the world began to crystallise. They often came from other sources – for example, books written by psychics or spiritualists of the traditional kind. Many of their books were written as a direct result of conversing with spirits from Heaven. It so happened that most of these writers were singing off the same hymn sheet, in the sense that they were describing the same model of the world that I explained above.

As I heard more and more points of view, pieces of the jigsaw began falling into place, and in a crystal clear manner I was able to discern which points of view were either right or wrong. (i.e. true or misguided). I can only put this down to a sixth-sense. A ‘map’ of reality was emerging, which was confirmed and sponsored from within me. I knew that this model of the world is a reflection of the way things really are – equally as much as I know that the sky is blue. (If you’re interested, for reference, some of those books I read are: ‘Life on the Other Side’, by Syvlia Browne, ‘Journey of Souls’, by Michael Newton’, ‘A World Beyond’, by Ruth Montgomery, ‘Emmanuel’s Book’ by Judith Stanton, ‘Conversations with God Book 1’ by Neale Donald Walsch, and ‘the Way to the Kingdom’ by Joseph Benner).

I don’t normally talk about these beliefs, as I’ve learned that it’s wiser to walk the path than to talk the path. I'm only 'strange' to people that I know in the sense that I have an unnaturally laid back attitude to life, and can also retain a sense of inner peace and security even in the face of calamity. I believe that as humanity evolves, psychic awareness will become more and more ‘normal’. I said to Sally in another post that I believe that everybody is psychic to some degree or other. Some people to a tiny degree; others to a large degree. It’s all a natural process of humanity's growth. Furthermore, because the nature of ‘the Infinite’ transcends our finite minds, I’m sure psychic ability is the most logical way (probably the only way) for humanity to properly discern the Truth.

Again, I don’t expect this to cut any mustard for non-believers. But that’s okay. There’s a time and a season for everything. I’m just sharing a point of view, which I trust will do no harm.
on Sep 07, 2004
AndyBaker,

Thankyou so much for sharing! I have always been drawn to the subject since a child .....fascinated....I have read a lot of books.....SPR (Society for Psychical Research) has been a good source ......and I've always felt there is .....'More than heaven and earth...Horatio'......
I have felt that we do all have something more to us but not all of us take to it instinctively.........As an instrument....some people pick it up straight away and are attuned naturally....others need to practice to become in tune with their instrument....and some are not interested at all and never pick theirs up.....if that makes sense.

I don’t normally talk about these beliefs, as I’ve learned that it’s wiser to walk the path than to talk the path

Ah yes...that's a big part of it really......do you need to tell another for it to be concrete? If a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound.....How can it if there is is no one there to hear it?

I really enjoy talking about this subject with you especially with your perspective......I find not many people I know are interested and get a glazed look if I do switch to the subject and don't have much to say......but kind of seem a little relieved when they change it back to a comfortable sport conversation or similar...

So.....I have a question.....If everything we do here on earth are challenges we have created for ourselves for spiritual advancemment....all the cruelties....or the torment....pain and suffering.....why do we need to be so harsh....?....a few questions actually.......Why do we need to become optimum beings....? .....I have so may questions........!

I will look up some of the books you recommended also. Thanks, Andy!

Sally,

What is your perspective.....

I don't really have belief, but I have hope, and that's a start right?

....so how have you navigated through life.....?
It is nice to have hope...isn't it.....I have hope except I don't have a firm grasp on what I do have hope for....
it's nice to be a sponge to information and soak it all in........and I hope...there's that word again.....that oneday all the information I have gathered will give me the answers I have been searching for.

on Sep 08, 2004
That was amazing Andy. I don't doubt your beliefs at all, I just don't fully trust them myself. I know you will understand that, until I see or feel what you have, then I won't believe them. I don't doubt you though, and I am ever so grateful to you for sharing them insights. I think that is something very close to you, and I'm honoured you feel you can be so open.

pain and suffering.....why do we need to be so harsh....?....


Can I have a go at this one? Life is just the test for a greater thing. In life we have good and bad things. The bad things let us appreciate the good things. If we never knew how bad things could be, then we would never fully feel the goodness of them. Life is a challenge, a more of a challenge it is for you, the more character you will build, the better understanding of life you will have, and you will take this with you into the next life, and appreciate how great it is there, because of the suffering you have indured, and the wisdom you have gained from it. I could be wrong, but that is my take on things.

I don't really have belief, but I have hope, and that's a start right?....so how have you navigated through life.....?


I trust myself and myself only. I live life by my rules and no one elses. I only have to answer to myself. So I may have beliefs that fit in with other people, but no one is telling me to believe in anything. I choose my own path, and I always will. I guess you could call it a blind faith. I have faith, I just don't know what in, and I don't think I ever will. I'm happy with that though. I fully respect other peoples beliefs, as long as they don't try and make me follow them. I don't follow anyone, just lead myself.
on Sep 08, 2004
Thanks so much for your comments. It’s so much appreciated, and it’s such an interesting subject, I think. I agree that we should trust ourself and ourself only Sally. We are all led to our own wisdom, whatever that may be. And as long as we are true to ourself, we can’t go far wrong. Stay on the path that you're most comfortable with hun, and don't let anyone try to change your point of view. You have a heart of gold Sally, and that's all that counts.

So.....I have a question.....If everything we do here on earth are challenges we have created for ourselves for spiritual advancemment....all the cruelties....or the torment....pain and suffering.....why do we need to be so harsh....?....a few questions actually.......Why do we need to become optimum beings....?


Crusader, we can all relate to a big problem that we might have faced, which, beforehand or in the midst of it, we have thought, "This is awful! I so wish I didn't have to face this." But afterwards, when the storm is over, we can feel stronger, wiser and more satisfied than before - if we conquered it, of course. Yet in life's eternal story, the ending is always happy, because love will prevail in the end. Challenges build inner-strength, wisdom and spiritual mettle. This same principle applies to our lives on earth. Sally was completely right - only by facing pain and badness can we fully appreciate joy and goodness. "Goodness" is a relative term, and would be a meaningless concept without negativity. As our religious tales have taught us, only when Adam and Eve decided to eat fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil did they "become like God, knowing good and evil". Significantly, Adam and Eve's choice to eat the fruit of evil left God with no other choice than to drive them out of Paradise.

The soul always seeks a higher quality of being - more joy, more wisdom, more strength, world without end. Our short trips to earth are an effective means by which such growth and expansion can be attained. The greater the challenges we can face, the stronger, wiser and more satisfied our soul can become - at the end of the day. What’s more, success is guaranteed for us all - ultimately. In her book, Life on the Other Side, Sylvia Brown said that we will often return from an incarnation to the Other Side with a feeling of "unfinished business". We then feel impelled to incarnate again to carry on accomplishing our goals, in a step-by-step manner. Our challenge might be to overcome an abusive family cycle, or an alcohol addiction, or whatever. Whether it takes 7 years or 7 lifetimes to conquer a challenge, at the end of the day, we will succeed.

As to evil folk, such as Hitler, I believe they are simply misguided or lost souls. Due to the veil that clouds our conscious minds from our divine heritage, we can sometimes lose our way, and can find ourselves lured by worldly principles and powers - money, greed, jealousy, selfishness, hatred, principles of ‘survival of the fittest’. All of these attributes can distort our consciousness to such a degree that one's character can become completely evil. Such was the case with Hitler. These people are not yet aware of true power and strength – compassion, forgiveness, courage, gentleness, love of others, and understanding. Instead, they embodied ‘worldly strength’, which, from Heaven’s perspective, is actually a weakness.

As I said earlier, hell is a state of being, and exists only in one's consciousness. Rest assured when Hitler passed over to the Other Side, he wouldn't have been happy with himself, to say the least. With the full picture opened up to him, he would have been aware of his atrocities, even from the perspective of his victims, (rather than just from his own selfish perspective). Then his heart would have dropped into a state of deep despair. A man will reap exactly what he sows, says the Good Book. Rest assured, Hitler would have a created a hell of his own making, in some form or another. But he woudln't reside there forever, I'm sure. That would be impossible, because love and light will prevail.

As to Hitler’s apparent ‘victims’, consider the inspirational words from Victor Frankl, a survivor of Auschwitz prison camp in Nazi Germany:

“Often it is just such an exceptionally difficult external situation which gives man the opportunity to grow spiritually beyond himself. … ... To be sure, a human being is a finite thing, and his freedom is restricted. It is not freedom from conditions, but it is freedom to take stand toward the conditions. … Even the helpless victim of a hopeless situation, facing a fate he cannot change, may rise above himself, may grow beyond himself, and by doing so change himself. He may turn a personal tragedy into a triumph.” (‘Man’s Search For Meaning’, Victor Frankl, Touchstone, 1959.)

Just to let you know, I'm not free for the next few nights, so won't be able to write before the weekend. Crusader, ask some more questions, so we can have some more fodder to chew on. It's all good stuff, I find. Have a good week, I'll catch you later,

Andy

on Sep 08, 2004
I just have a couple of minutes.....
Hello Sally, Andy, hope you are both healthy and happy!!

There's a lot to read above and I don't have long....I will be away until Saturday more likely than not ....
I have one question now, though, off the top of my head......
Why do babies die......when they haven't had a chance to learn anything?
and.....maybe one more.......if someone as Hitler could take the lives of so many others in his hands....and he may have learned his mistake after his death.....but what did those 6 million people who died learn......that sort of thing surely wasn't their choosing?
and.....last one.....Are our dreams of significance or are they just random visions?

Hope you both have a pleasing end of week.........See you on the weekend!
on Sep 09, 2004
Ok Andy, first of all that got my insightful. I don't fully agree, but I respect the ideas. I hope you don't mind me chewing it up a little bit. First of all thankyou for your comments, your very sweet, I may have a heart of gold, but following my own path goes with being very stubborn and pig headed too!

As to evil folk, such as Hitler, I believe they are simply misguided or lost souls


I was with everything you was saying, until I read that. So what you're saying is everyone comes to earth, pure and full of goodness, and then things in the world turn them, greed etc. Surely if god knows evil needs to be on earth, can't some people be accepted that they are just born evil. Why is it they have to be a misguided soul? Why lay blame anywhere else but at their door. This is where my understanding gets all muddled, because in my humble opinion such things are just making excuses for whats is evil. Maybe god intended us to follow our own paths, and if evil was on that path then so be it. However to be realistic, some people must be born evil, without the world affecting them. Am I ranting, I feel as though I am, sorry.....I get slightly over excited, I am totally fascinated by all this though!

I do like the idea of him creating his own hell though. that he looks back and sees what he does, and the guilt is just to much for him. That is something I could buy into.

Andy I don't mean to appear to be doubting you, I'm not. I just have an enquiring mind, and like to question things, I hope you don't mind, because I don't want to offend you. I love your comments.

Crusader, I am great thankyou, and I hope you are doing good. all these questions you are asking, I want to have a go at answering, but I'll let Andy share his wisdom, as he is far more informed than me.

Just one note, maybe the babies life is not about what they learn, but what other people learn from their death, and that is why they are taken away. Anywho, do carry on, I'll keep checking for you both xxxx
on Sep 09, 2004
What I see is a lot of people getting all hot and bothered about the NEXT life when they really aren't living THIS one.


I think this still bears repeating.
on Sep 10, 2004
Hi, hope you’ve had a good week. Thanks so much for your comments. I have so much to say about all this, I hope I don’t go on too much or get boring.

I want to have a go at answering, but I'll let Andy share his wisdom, as he is far more informed than me.


Don’t be silly babe. It goes without saying that everyone’s views are as valid as anyone elses. I’d love to hear your answers to those questions. Please share them - and it's your own thread to boot!

Why do babies die


Crusader, I couldn’t have given a more concise answer to that question than Sally’s answer:

maybe the babies life is not about what they learn, but what other people learn from their death, and that is why they are taken away


I believe that the reason why some people die young is not so much to benefit their own soul, but rather to benefit others who are involved in their life. At first, it may seem absurd to claim that a person who dies young might benefit the lives of those who may be involved in its life. However, according to this model of the world, our lives on earth aren’t our “real” lives at all. Life on the Other Side is our real life, where we are infinitely secure. It is within this state of infinite security - with the goodness and beauty of the bigger picture open to us - that we choose to embark on journeys to earth for the soul-purpose of spiritual growth and learning.

Lives on physical planes are effectively ‘tools’ to be used to cultivate a higher good. One such beneficial tool might be to face the challenge of losing a loved one at a young age. This is indeed a profound and painful challenge, yet it takes pain for real growth to occur. We should remember that from within the context of Heaven, death doesn’t even exist.

From the point of view of a finite human being, the death of a young person is an abomination - a cruel hoax played by a God who is either evil, has lost the plot, or doesn’t even exist. Yet from the point of view of the soul, the challenge of experiencing a ‘death’ of a loved one might be an irresistible opportunity to garner strength and wisdom.

what did those 6 million people who died learn......that sort of thing surely wasn't their choosing?


The principle described above can apply on a larger scale to the growth of humanity as a whole. The people who died at the hands of the Nazis, for example, were all part of a learning curve for humanity, albeit a painful one. Even though the holocaust was an atrocious and evil event, we have learned a lot from it. Much good, compassion and courage – as well as many enlightened views - have since arisen because of the holocaust, rather than in spite of it.

The recent terrorist attacks and the ongoing battles in Iraq are clear demonstrations that there is still much room for growth for humanity. We are still only kids - as can be seen from the size of Bush’s toys, or from the playground antics of the terrorists. A sure sign of growth will be when we learn that love is the answer, rather than principles of ‘might is right’. But we can’t rush the growth process. We can only let things be, and trust that nothing is out of control. We can afford to be at peace - within ourselves as individuals, if not yet within the whole human race.

I've written a separate post for the next one...
on Sep 10, 2004
I was with everything you was saying, until I read that


(referring to my "Hitler is a simply a misguided or lost soul").

Sally, there’s no need for us to disagree on this one. I believe that we’re both right - as I’ll try to explain here.

Ultimately, I believe that we are all ‘sparks of God’. We are created in the image and likeness of God, (Hitler included), which means that we are spiritual beings, created “good” at the outset. We are each born into Eden-Paradise (i.e. Heaven), clothed in a Heavenly body, and once we have embarked on this eternal journey, we have an innate desire to explore, grow and expand.

(I'll add here that I could begin each of the following sentences with the words, “I believe”. But in order to keep it simple, and at the risk of sounding arrogant, I won’t bother. It's just my point of view.)

At any one moment in time there will be undeveloped, young souls. In some rare instances, some of these younger souls might be carrying heavy loads of negative karmic energy. Such cases can occur when eager little souls attempt to gain wisdom and knowledge by using ‘quick-fix’ methods.

For example, whilst living in Heaven, we are aware that a huge amount of spiritual growth and wisdom can potentially be acquired if we live a harsh life on earth. Yet if we attempt to experience a few difficult lives prematurely before we are strong, then rather than growing strong and wise from our experiences, we can be overcome by them. We can become weak, and thus more vulnerable to the lures of the world - greed, lust, power, etc. With our earthly minds oblivious to our divine heritage, it is possible to get more and more out of sync with our inner-compass. As a result, our attitudes and behaviour can distort and become very negative, which in turn can cause a large increase in negative karma. (Negative karma is balanced out when we exercise positive attitudes and behaviour, such as goodwill, love, forgiveness, courage etc.)

Now, after each lifetime on earth, when we pass over to Heaven, we do not suddenly become all-perfect, good and pure. We simply get the full picture, become aware of our present level of advancement and growth, and are able to continue our lives in Paradise. For the vast majority, dying is a highly positive experience. It is like being released from a dark, stuffy room, walking into a beautiful, breathtaking world of freedom and light. With the assistance of our spirit guides and friends, we are given the opportunity to review our lives on earth, and we can assess how well we think we have been doing. Because of our enlightened perspective, we can easily forgive ourselves for our failures, shortfalls and faults – even the chronic ones. “I can give it another go”, we often think. “Next time I can do better”.

But as to those few young souls carrying a lot of negative karmic energy, the experience of death might not be such a pleasant one. If the soul becomes aware for the umteenth time that it caused mostly harm, heartache or pain, brought on by its own selfish greed or worldly desires - again - then the soul can fall into a deep state of despair and inner-darkness. In such a state, and after many such cycles, one can become distorted without a bearing, even on the Other Side.

This could have been the case with Hitler. If we can imagine one of these ‘negative cycles’ repeating itself a number of times, then we can begin to understand how a personality like Hitler came to be. With his ball of ‘evil energy’ still rolling, even after passing over to the Other Side, he might have chosen to incarnate on earth again. (Incidentally, it’s very difficult to burn off negative karma in Heaven. The challenges simply don’t exist there. Incarnating on a physical planes such as earth is the fastest way to accumulate positive karma, yet in order to fulfil our highest potential we need to exercise as much goodwill, courage and inner-strength as we can. This principle may have swayed Hitler’s distorted decision to come back to earth again.)

Sally, I know that I’ve gone a long way round to make this point, but I agree with you when you say that Hitler was “born evil”. I believe that his soul was already caked in evil, even from the moment he was born. Yet at the same time, from within the context of the bigger picture, Hitler was simply a misguided soul. He is a child of God, and God loves us unconditionally. There is a divine spark within each of us, and that light never goes out. Even if we cover that light with mountains and mountains of evil energy over vast periods of time, the divine light will still exist within us, in the deepest part of our soul.

I believe that it will only be a matter of time, (maybe eons and eons and eons), when Hitler will become integrated, healthy and “good” again. And what a wise and strong soul he’ll be.

What I see is a lot of people getting all hot and bothered about the NEXT life when they really aren't living THIS one.

I think this still bears repeating.


Shovel, you’re completely right, and I believe that it’s a case of striking a good balance. Assume for a moment that this model of the world might be true. How much would this view influence our attitudes and behaviour in the here and now?

Anyway, as you can probably tell, I've got such a passion for this stuff. I could write about it all day, (which is probably how I can make up for never speaking about it.) I look forward to hearing anyone's views,

Have a good weekend, I'll catch you soon,

Andy
on Sep 10, 2004
I'm sorry to hear about your cousin Sal, it always seems a million times worse when someone very young dies, like you said- a terrible waste, and so sad.

I think the worst thing of losing someone close to you is the way your mind tricks you..or mine does anyway. I still find myself waking up and expecting to be able to go and see the person, or call her up, or talk with her. It's not only sad but incredibly frustrating when you find they really are gone, and when it hits you its physical, like being punched in the stomach. And that feeling comes at least once a day. There isn't any real comfort in gravestones, diaries or pictures or memories. The only comfort would come in the person themselves, and that can't ever be.

Its definately a good thing that you realise the possibility that your loved ones might die and you not be prepared or have said all the things you want to say. I know its painful but i guess if you know this you can act on it if you want to. I dont think you should spend the rest of your life saying i love you and goodbye to everyone you love, but maybe just bear those thoughts in mind when they hurt you.

I think this article deserves an insightful

Dyl xx
on Sep 10, 2004
Andy, Dyl, just to let you know I have read your comments, and greatly appreciate both, but I am so tired at the moment, I can't justify them with the response they deserve, so I will be back tomorrow, to respond. Thanks though guys, I'm really enjoying this discussion xxx
on Sep 10, 2004
Morning Sally, Andy , everyone.....

Crusader, I am great thankyou, and I hope you are doing good. all these questions you are asking, I want to have a go at answering, but I'll let Andy share his wisdom, as he is far more informed than me.

Your answers are as important as Andy's..(no offence Andy...I'm sure you know what I mean!) So, please answer away....it's all the more interesting with the different perspectives given.

I have read your answers though I may go back and reread to ensure I have locked it in my memory.....it's quite a lot to absorb!
Okay....I'm going to just jump in and ask some more questions ...


The soul always seeks a higher quality of being - more joy, more wisdom, more strength, world without end. Our short trips to earth are an effective means by which such growth and expansion can be attained.


Earth is our learning ground......what happens when our actions have caused us to destroy our planet and we no longer have our earth in which to grow and expand our souls.....where do we go from there??

In cases such as Hitler....does God ever step in and help the soul in question?

Why do we have so many religions on earth....do we need them while we are here??

I'm finding it hard to phrase this question properly ......
As there are babes born everyday in our Earthly life.....are our souls born in that way too....(so there is no set number of us ) aren't there eventually going to be too many of us?
That is so not worded how I would have liked......I hope you understand what I am asking....I am having a mental block and can't get it out right!!!

Crusader, we can all relate to a big problem that we might have faced, which, beforehand or in the midst of it, we have thought, "This is awful! I so wish I didn't have to face this." But afterwards, when the storm is over, we can feel stronger, wiser and more satisfied than before - if we conquered it, of course. Yet in life's eternal story, the ending is always happy, because love will prevail in the end. Challenges build inner-strength, wisdom and spiritual mettle. This same principle applies to our lives on earth.

last question.......
So what happens here on earth doesn't really matter....except for our personal trials.......so I really shouldn't bother to help those in need as they are only growning from what they are experiencing...?
I am still asking that question...though, I must say that I cannot do that ...I cannot let others suffer from anothers wrath in this world because it may be of their souls own choosing..and what happens here is not real......maybe other souls need help while here....should it not be part of our growth to help and guide others....?

I have got another million questions for everyone but I'll save the rest for later.....but I'd just like to let you know.. Andy, Sally and everyone else here that I appreciate that you can share your thoughts and beliefs as it is helping me to understand myself and others and I am enoying our conversation here immensely!!


on Sep 11, 2004
From the point of view of a finite human being, the death of a young person is an abomination - a cruel hoax played by a God who is either evil, has lost the plot, or doesn’t even exist. Yet from the point of view of the soul, the challenge of experiencing a ‘death’ of a loved one might be an irresistible opportunity to garner strength and wisdom.


Well it's a mixture of both isn't it. I too would question gods reasoning, and consider him to be evil (that is if I believed in him) but having said that, it would all depend on how I came out the other side. If I took this evil, and used it to excuse my own behaviour, or if I channeled it into more positive things.

I see where you're coming from with the Hitler thing. No matter what process he went through, or how many times he went through it, he is evil though.

Andy I am totally loving this discussion, and I thankyou for your comments they are amazing.

Thanks for that lovely comment Dyl, I know it's a subject close to home for you at the moment. It amazes me the physical pain you feel from such things. You do feel like you've just been beaten up. That ache, that never seems to go away. The emotional pain is just as bad. That you can't believe they have gone. No need to say goodbye to everyone, just remember to appreciate them huh. I hope you're ok chicken, luv ya xxx

Your answers are as important as Andy's..(no offence Andy...I'm sure you know what I mean!) So, please answer away....it's all the more interesting with the different perspectives given.


Thanks Crusader, I just meant that this is Andys area of knowledge, and I don't want to be making a fool of myself, but I'll still put forward my ideas!

Earth is our learning ground......what happens when our actions have caused us to destroy our planet and we no longer have our earth in which to grow and expand our souls.....where do we go from there??


In my opinion, we will be given a much worse place to learn. To teach us a lesson for ruining this one, and it will get worse, and worse until we learn to appreciate it, and then slowly things will improve again.

In cases such as Hitler....does God ever step in and help the soul in question?


I like to think of god as an observer. He sees everything, but doesn't step in, as our mistakes have to be made. In alter life he may guide us, but we need to make the bad decisions, so we can learn from them.

Why do we have so many religions on earth....do we need them while we are here??


Because we are all so different. Different religions take us to the same place, just along different routes. In my opinion, we don't need them, they just give those that want guidance the helping hand, and the support they get from religion.

So what happens here on earth doesn't really matter....except for our personal trials.......so I really shouldn't bother to help those in need as they are only growning from what they are experiencing...? I am still asking that question...though, I must say that I cannot do that ...I cannot let others suffer from anothers wrath in this world because it may be of their souls own choosing..and what happens here is not real......maybe other souls need help while here....should it not be part of our growth to help and guide others....?


If you saw someone in the street suffering, and walked past them, that would not be about their personal trial, that would be about you, and your lack of compassion. It would show you still had alot to learn from life. I'm not saying you would do that, I know you owuldn'y it's just an example. Mankind is a whole. We learn together, so therefore, helping someone, is not only helping them with their trials, but helping you with yours. People who go through awful things, learn to get through them not only by themselves, but with the support of others. That doesn't make them weak, just human. I don't think I answered that very well, sorry.

I have got another million questions for everyone but I'll save the rest for later.....but I'd just like to let you know.. Andy, Sally and everyone else here that I appreciate that you can share your thoughts and beliefs as it is helping me to understand myself and others and I am enoying our conversation here immensely!!


Me too! Please ask as many questions as you want. I am enjoying them alot. I'd like to know where you stand on the Crusader, you must have your own opinions.
on Sep 11, 2004
Sally,
Good morning.....had a good week I hope?!

Why do we have so many religions on earth....do we need them while we are here??

Because we are all so different. Different religions take us to the same place, just along different routes. In my opinion, we don't need them, they just give those that want guidance the helping hand, and the support they get from religion.

You answered that so well for me, Sally, it's like the penny dropped! I can never really get my head around relegion....and the fact that there are so many....though I have always thought it was quite the tool for people in which to give them some sort of basis in which to head....though again on the other hand the people are a tool to the churches and religion.....it is no secret that religion...or some of those in postions of influence in the churches have used mans weakness for their own purpose through the ages.
I feel it would be more spiritual if people had simple faith in their beliefs and worshipped through their own life rather than feeling the need to go to a church to do so....and I understand the need we have to interact and socialise...that would be a positive aspect of churches.. I guess....but can't we have have community groups instead and keep our faith separate on a more personal level...?


Earth is our learning ground......what happens when our actions have caused us to destroy our planet and we no longer have our earth in which to grow and expand our souls.....where do we go from there??



In my opinion, we will be given a much worse place to learn. To teach us a lesson for ruining this one, and it will get worse, and worse until we learn to appreciate it, and then slowly things will improve again.


Hmmmm....scary thought.....I think it's really awful how we are thinking that Earth can be disposable ....that we can simply reach out to the stars and find a new home. And that reasoning is very dangerous as we spend more time looking elsewhere we fail to save and preserve our home in the meantime.....but it withers with neglect. Do you think this day and age could be the time for slow improvement?

In cases such as Hitler....does God ever step in and help the soul in question?


I like to think of god as an observer. He sees everything, but doesn't step in, as our mistakes have to be made. In alter life he may guide us, but we need to make the bad decisions, so we can learn from them.


I suppose nothing would be learned and earned if we knew someone was going to step in and save us at the last minute.......we could do all the damage we do with the knowledge that it will be cleaned up after us...so yes I understand why God could not step in.....it makes sense.

On the sugject of Hitler.....we watched 'The Passion of the Christ' the other night....ofcourse I had tears streaming down my face through pretty much the whole thing....The pain and torture Jesus suffered by these barbaric people.....for speaking his words......And I thought ...as I wept...and watched.....(and I know it was just a movie but the visions are real around the world and ages) that no one deserves to endure that....not one person....not even someone as Hitler....that is exactly what I thought.......and I believe. We wish so much ill and harm on those we hate...but if only people could open their hearts and love those that would not love them....have compassion for those who would not otherwise receive it for their actions...and forgive and move forward in their life to a place without Hate...Revenge...Bitterness...but where they feel Love...Respect...and Compassion for all kind....and show them that they can change and they will be accepted.

Mankind is a whole. We learn together, so therefore, helping someone, is not only helping them with their trials, but helping you with yours. People who go through awful things, learn to get through them not only by themselves, but with the support of others. That doesn't make them weak, just human. I don't think I answered that very well, sorry.

AAhh....in fact you answered that very well...and another penny has dropped.....yes ...as you said we are all part of a whole...Yet unfortunately I feel we fail to see that.....we live in a segregated world......we separate ourselves by country....colour...classes.......I hope that we can one day see the bigger picture...see that we are all connected...and work with this connection rather than against it. We are swimming against the tide at the moment...I am waiting for the day that we all turn and allow ourselves to be taken with the current of life and flow peacefully with the tide.

Hopefully some of the above has revealed where I stand, Sally.
You know... all I want in life is for everyone to be happy ...not just myself and those I love...not just those in my country...but everyone in every country and corner of our Earth.....Is that so much to ask...?
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