wow Sally,  I felt my emotional self getting on edge just reading his remarks!

I agree with your thoughts on this and would add that AS an older woman,  who HAS gained weight,  that the doctor has told me that if I stop all my heart and blood pressure pills,  I will lose the weight I"ve gained.

I"ve tried to lose it,  and it does  come off when I've skipped a couple of doses of meds.  Not worth what it would cost me though!!

It's good if a young person knows what they will and won't abide in a relationship,  and his wanting his significant other to stay healthy is one thing,  to say he can turn off his love if she gains weight is something else!  AND I say "turn off his love" because that IS part of the whole deal.  How can anyone "have to finish" with someone because they're no longer attracted to them because they gained weight?

Like you said Sally,  if the other person has gotten so fat they can't get themself out of bed,  then they've put themself at serious risk for major health problems and probably also have mental health issues causing the major weight gain. 

People with Arthritis have a difficult time exercising as it creates more stress to the joints,  like with RA, which causes further inflammation.  Swimming is the only exercise that doesn't aggravate joints, least for me anyway. 

I think for some ( not all) guys,  they're embarrassed to have a fat wife/girlfriend,  maybe some guys ARE disgusted and lose desire for their partner,  certainly not though over a few pounds! 

Well, as I said on one of Dharma's articles once, one of my great fears is I'll marry a women and then she'll chub up. Some women do have the attitude, "Okay, I hooked one, now I can let myself go."

Now, I don't mean she has to be rail skinny for life. A few pounds here and there are probably inevitable, but when she goes from Moped to Hummer how can you not have a problem?

However I do think your friend's BF is overly dogmatic and delusional on the mater. Take for instance Renée Zellweger (whom by now everyone here should know I majorly crush on). I like her in the chubbier, Bridget Jones mode. Actually I kinda prefer it. But if she kept on heading toward Sumo wrestler we might have to sit down and have a talk....


(And for an example of where I think I would have a problem? Singer Anita Baker. Compare her on the cover of her first album to her now. That's... um... quite a change. Actually, she looks like a different woman.)

What I'd be interested to hear from the guy in question was what he'd do were he to gain weight

As for losing interest in someone that gains a few pounds, I can sort of see where that comes from in a relationship that's still growing. He probably thinks he wouldn't have fallen for the girl if she were several pounds heavier. In fact, were someone to gain 20 pounds overnight, most people would have some reaction along the lines you describe. When it comes down to it though the 'decision' will probably be much less drastic. Would he quit loving her if she gained a pound? No. Two? No. Ten? Twenty? Well, if it was overnight, at this time, maybe. Ten years down the road? Probably not, because he'll know there are other reasons he loves her.

What I mean is, if you allow a relationship to grow beyond the purely physical attraction, a bit of extra weight doesn't qualify as a reason to end a relationship anymore. Not even for this guy, I think. If it goes far beyond a bit of extra weight you get to the point where there are probably more problems as you already said. And I think those problems constitute a much bigger danger to a relationship than a little weight will ever do.

Physical attraction is part of marriage as well.

We don't have a lot of control over what we're physically attracted.  If ones wife lets her self go and gains a lot of weight, the result may be a simple matter of loss of physical attraction. 

Each person has their own threshold on when someone is no longer attractive. 

On the flip side, I've seen plenty of women end up leaving their husbands for finanical reasons (i.e. where the man would squander their money depleting their savings on frivelous things).  Should a woman be tied to a man who keeps them on the edge of poverty?

The problem with marriage is the idea that it should be tied together by principle rather than mutual self-interest.  The moment one party begins to take that for granted and believe that the other is tied to them because of marriage vows is the minute the marriage is heading for an untimely end.

I'm with you on this one, Sal. I can't begin to judge someone that way just because they have gained some weight (because, let's be honest, it happens to most men too - does that give all women in that situation the same out?)

I can't be that obsessed with looks. They are an important part of dating, heavens yes - but if that's all there was, almost everyone would be divorced at age 40.

I look at my parents as an example. My mother has gained weight since their marriage, whereas my dad still is in great shape. (The man runs marathons, after all.) But they've continued to grow closer as a couple and in their marriage, regardless of the new size difference.

I hope that my wife and I can be the same way. I intend to continue to take care of myself, and I hope that she'll feel the same, but I hope that my love for her will be strong enough to overcome something that trivial. (Call me optimistic and naive, if you must. )

I personally believe that there definitely needs to be a degree of physical attraction for a relationship to work... That said, it's always been that initial attraction to a person that really has mattered to me. If people change a bit while you're together, or even if you're not, it doesn't really matter as much. The initial attraction, though, is the necessary gateway into a relationship. Without that, I think that things go a great deal less smooth, maybe less passionate, and, overall, less interesting to maintain.

But, like it's said even within the range of comments here, we can't control who we're attracted to. I've tried to be physically attracted to girls who I knew to be good-looking and relatively interesting, but to absolutely no avail. I've also been head-over-heels attracted to girls who a number of my friends felt weren't really all that great.

S'all about chemistry.

Trudy:

It's good if a young person knows what they will and won't abide in a relationship, and his wanting his significant other to stay healthy is one thing, to say he can turn off his love if she gains weight is something else

Well like you say, there are extremes in every situation. To know what you want, and what will keep you happy is perfect acceptable, and we shouldn't stay with someone if we aren't happy. However, I think for him to judge a situation, and be able to say so certainly that is the way he would react is ridiculous. Love is about give and take.

I think for some ( not all) guys, they're embarrassed to have a fat wife/girlfriend, maybe some guys ARE disgusted and lose desire for their partner, certainly not though over a few pounds!

Most blokes are fond of their slim chicks, and I do understand that. There is more to life than that though. You need to have a connection with someone, and see beyond complete physical attraction. It's amazing what you find attractive when you are blinded by love!

Gene:

It is so nice to see you hun!

one of my great fears is I'll marry a women and then she'll chub up. Some women do have the attitude, "Okay, I hooked one, now I can let myself go."

I think I may have that attitude. It will be like, wahey, now I can eat all the chocolate I want! (I only half mean that!)

Take for instance Renée Zellweger (whom by now everyone here should know I majorly crush on). I like her in the chubbier, Bridget Jones mode. Actually I kinda prefer it. But if she kept on heading toward Sumo wrestler we might have to sit down and have a talk....

I'm so pleased you said that! A few pounds can be attractive, not everyone wants to be a stick. You just don't want it to go to far, then I can see how it would be unattractive. Having said that I don't think that could be the only reason to end a relationship with someone you care about.

Daniel:

What I'd be interested to hear from the guy in question was what he'd do were he to gain weight

Hehe I thought that myself! Just more of him to love I guess......bloody men!

Well, if it was overnight, at this time, maybe. Ten years down the road? Probably not, because he'll know there are other reasons he loves her.

I agree with this. He is just seeing it as if it was going to happen tomorrow. Where as if it is ten years down the line their relationship will be based on many other things. Not that I'm saying it isn't now BUT there will be far more to it than there is at the moment. Well at least I hope so.

We don't have a lot of control over what we're physically attracted. If ones wife lets her self go and gains a lot of weight, the result may be a simple matter of loss of physical attraction.

So if the physical attraction went, that would be enough to end the relationship? Is there not other elements of attraction. Like how someone can make you laugh, or support you, or be there for you. Would they not make up for it? I'm not sure.....

I've seen plenty of women end up leaving their husbands for finanical reasons (i.e. where the man would squander their money depleting their savings on frivelous things). Should a woman be tied to a man who keeps them on the edge of poverty?

With any issue in a marriage.....and I'm guessing about this, since I'm not married. You tell someone when you aren't happy. You see if they will change it. If they don't, then you have some serious decisions to make I guess.

The problem with marriage is the idea that it should be tied together by principle rather than mutual self-interest. The moment one party begins to take that for granted and believe that the other is tied to them because of marriage vows is the minute the marriage is heading for an untimely end.

I like this! It's given me something to think about. I guess many people percieve marriage in this way. That it will allow them to get away with alot more, and some may take advantage of that! Hmm.....

Charlie Chonino:

I can't be that obsessed with looks. They are an important part of dating, heavens yes - but if that's all there was, almost everyone would be divorced at age 40.

! What you trying to say about the over 40's???? ....that really made me laugh!

I hope that my wife and I can be the same way. I intend to continue to take care of myself, and I hope that she'll feel the same, but I hope that my love for her will be strong enough to overcome something that trivial. (Call me optimistic and naive, if you must. )

I think that's a great way of looking at it babe, and that's what makes you such a wicked guy. Any chick would be lucky to have you!

Trent:

That said, it's always been that initial attraction to a person that really has mattered to me. If people change a bit while you're together, or even if you're not, it doesn't really matter as much. The initial attraction, though, is the necessary gateway into a relationship.

First impressions count for alot. Though with me personally I find it's the opposite. My judge of character is not always spot on, and alot of the time I find people grow on me. I can like people for the strangest reasons, and that is rarely down to the way they look. If a man can interest me and make me laugh....he's almost there. God I sound easy!

we can't control who we're attracted to. I've tried to be physically attracted to girls who I knew to be good-looking and relatively interesting, but to absolutely no avail. I've also been head-over-heels attracted to girls who a number of my friends felt weren't really all that great.

Good for you babe! You have to follow your heart in these situations, and it wouldn't do for us all to be interested in the same people. How boring would the world be then! Just all depends on what you like I guess.

Thanks all for the comments xxxx

All that comes to mind after reading your article is "what a jerk". He does have some growing up to do. Hopefully if he's totally in love with this woman he'll realize that it isnt only the looks that make a relationship work. I wish him the best of luck in any case.

But you hunny, shouldnt worry about being with such a jackass, lol! You have a great super fun personality. Whoever finds you will never want to leave you I just hope for you it's a soccer player with nice tighs and that he never gains weight, hahahahahaha!!!

Well you have gotten some advice.  That is there idea.  Simply put, physical attraction is the bait.  Bait does not land the fish.  It may hook them, but it does not reel them in.  Once the hook is set, and the bait taken, then it takes commitment.  That is long term.

Crappies take the bate often.  But they seldom are reeled in.  For 2 reasons.  They dont get hooked well enough, and no one wants to keep them.

Time to throw this crappy back.

The word 'boy' is key here.

It was this that gave the rest of what you say the right perspective. This boy will learn the hard way he can't be so shallow. I wonder what the thinks of his mother, who probably put on a few pounds after having him. Does this conditional love and support also apply to family members? Hmm, me thinks there is too much thinking with the small head going on in this boy's life at the moment. He'll learn...

marriage...should be tied together by principle rather than mutual self-interest.

I've paraphrased Draginol but this is exactly how good marriages survive. Some self-interest has to play a part in it (like wanting to be attractive for your partner, for instance0 but if this becomes all-consuming, that's when relationships go to hell.

There is a deeply disquieting anti-fat culture gaining headway among the teen/twentysomething crowd. I've seen some truly scary things that show that in the doublezeroes, being fat is the new 'racism'. When I say that I mean in its ugliest way, meaning the attitude is diving from "Fat is unattractive" to "Fat is subhuman, fat is sign of moral decay, fat people should be fined, for being a strain on society, and yes, I've seen hate groups directed at fat people claiming they ought to be rounded up and euthanised since there's no way to be happy as a fat person, they do nothing but eat, and ruin the scenery. I am talking about actual comments made by seventeen year olds.

The idea that how much you weigh is so directly connected to what and how much one eats is rampant in society, liberal and conservative seem to agree on this alone: fatness is ugly. The liberals blame it on the corporate food diet, the neocons on moral turpitude and laziness. Neither is what makes people fat most of the time, though there ARE people who DO eat their way there, there are far more who simply eat completely normal amounts, or even less than they should, and who still get fat in their middle age. Millions cast blame on being sedentary and yet complain whenever they see a fat woman out jogging for wearing Spandex on that "ugly fat rear" instead of something that would cover it up and hide it. Who the hell would want to go out and deal with that every day? I have seen people pay three or four hundred dollars a month to get stared at and laughed at as they huff and puff on gym equipment and their net loss after a year is ten pounds.

Now this is NOT medical advice, it is ONLY based on my own experience. But I was almost three hundred pounds and am now 225, still too fat to avoid the teen weightist death-camp fantasy, but it sure is easier to move around. What did I do, to lose all that weight? Nothing. All I did was stop giving a damn...and move away from an area downtown where the air was filled with car exhaust and dry-cleaning fumes. My theory, never tested by medicine but that ought to be, is that something in the air was straining my liver and causing it to not break down fat, and getting away from that made it possible to break down fat. Sometimes I think it's that, other times, that I stopped thinking about being fat all the time, stressing out on it, and focusing my attention on it. It doesn't make sense, but sometimes that's how things come to you, when you stop wanting and trying so hard for them.

Seriously. Around 2002 I simply stopped caring. I gave up. I began to realise that having a rich fantasy life in which my appearance means nothing (I write, paint, make noise music, etc.) is no crime when one no longer has a thin youthful body that burns fat at a faster metabolic rate. Exercise helps that but not anywhere near what people are led to think. What it does is make one's muscles stronger, not smaller. Eating low fat or low carb diets? Some people lose weight, but get sick from not getting enough nutrients; people on Atkins in ketosis will stink "like rotten meat" sometimes, and once one stops the diet the weight returns. And very, very few people with stomach-staples are happy to have gotten them.

Yet I know why they did: they felt like targets of HATRED. Why do these people have such disdain for anyone who doesn't match their exact standard of physical attractiveness. I dig guys with long hair but if I see a bald man, does it louse up my day and make me want to barf to imagine him wanting me? No. So why do fat women have this effect on so many men, especially younger ones who think they will NEVER have weight problems since they will lift weights all their life? See how much time they have for that when they have a job and family. And then there are people who are just plain fat because it's hereditary. No one in my family was thin; except before age 30. I'm the first one to go all-healthy when it comes to diet, not that it helped the weight thing, but it does help me have the strength to lug it around.

And you guys who think fat women are the pinnacle of ugliness: look, maybe we think you are really unsexy. Ever consider that you don't have to worry about fending us off? We don't want you. Go play with yourself and your girlfriends' Victoria's Secret catalogues.

So if the physical attraction went, that would be enough to end the relationship? Is there not other elements of attraction. Like how someone can make you laugh, or support you, or be there for you. Would they not make up for it? I'm not sure.....

There's a lot of elements besides attraction that make a successful marriage. But attraction, IMO, is one of them and like any thing, is something is completely missing then well it's completely missing. 

It's easy, especially for people who haven't been married or are still very young (or both) to say "well people shouldn't care about X."  I've been happily married for over 12 years to my wife who I've been with for going on 15 years.  Warm fuzzy things are easy to say, but as time passes, basic, practical things end up taking precedence.

I think it's a very bad idea to every try to shame people into believing anything.  If something matters to people, that's what counts.  And the fact is, beauty and money do matter. We may not like it. It may seem crass. But it's true. 

Let me ask this: If it's okay for a woman (or man) to just let themselves go physically, is it okay for the spouse to have sex outside of marriage? I mean, after all, what's the big deal? What about that connection? It's just sex.  Of course, most people would argue that no, sex outside marriage isn't okay.  And I say that's fine.  But at the same time, I would not find it acceptable if my wife let herself go. 

Would I leave my wife if I was no longer attracted to her? I don't know. Fortunately, I've not had to face that.  What I am saying, however, is that marriage has to be a mutually beneficial arrangement.  Life is short and if both parties aren't getting something out of the marriage then it is doomed.

And if one party feels they're getting a lot less out of it than the other, he or she needs to communicate that. It's not okay for someone to just say "your feelings are invalid."  When it comes to marriage, there are no invalid feelings -- at least if you want to stay married.

I love my wife. I enjoy her company. I like being with her. She's smart, funny, kind, gentle, and fun.  I also find her attractive.  But I also make no bones about it - marriage is not some magical thing. It's a covenant between two people in which both people hope to mutually benefit from.  It is only viable as long as both parties feel they are benefiting.

If my wife let herself go and became unattractive to me, I would probably feel like I'm not getting as much out of the relationship as I should be. I would take it as a personal insult as well since there is a pride factor involved as well. It would undermine much of our relationship. 

When this 'boy' becomes a 'man' he'll know what life is all about when it comes to relationships!

Em:

All that comes to mind after reading your article is "what a jerk". He does have some growing up to do. Hopefully if he's totally in love with this woman he'll realize that it isnt only the looks that make a relationship work. I

Don't worry at one point I wanted to slap him! Ha! He's a decent guy, so I think that he will come to realise that he needs to give things some perspective, and maybe sometimes you can make allowances for the person you love!

You have a great super fun personality. Whoever finds you will never want to leave you I just hope for you it's a soccer player with nice tighs and that he never gains weight,

Aww thanks babe! You're so nice! I also hope it's a footballer with fit thighs! And a tight bum...haha! We live in hope.....If I find him, I'll send his team-mates your way!

Doc:

physical attraction is the bait. Bait does not land the fish. It may hook them, but it does not reel them in. Once the hook is set, and the bait taken, then it takes commitment. That is long term.

I do think some people seem to forget there is so much more to a relationship. Obviously you need physical attraction...I completely agree, but there is more to falling in love with someone than that!

Crappies take the bate often. But they seldom are reeled in. For 2 reasons. They dont get hooked well enough, and no one wants to keep them.

....loved this. You make me giggle Doc!

Maso:

Does this conditional love and support also apply to family members? Hmm, me thinks there is too much thinking with the small head going on in this boy's life at the moment. He'll learn...

Hehe...I think the same. He isn't all bad though. Just young I think.

Some self-interest has to play a part in it (like wanting to be attractive for your partner, for instance0 but if this becomes all-consuming, that's when relationships go to hell.

Yes, relationships need balance, for sure. Everythings got to be good to suit you.

Monde:

Alot of people just don't find fatness attractive, and sometimes they miss out because of that. There are alot of reasons why people have problems with their weight, but unfortunately people don't see that when they look at someone who is fat. I think people should be happy with themselves and confident, whatever that maybe physically, and find someone who likes them just the way they are. That's just my opinion. Don't change to make people like you, do it for yourself and everything else will fall into place.

Brad:

It's easy, especially for people who haven't been married or are still very young (or both) to say "well people shouldn't care about X." I've been happily married for over 12 years to my wife who I've been with for going on 15 years. Warm fuzzy things are easy to say, but as time passes, basic, practical things end up taking precedence

I completely understand that. I know that I live on a fluffy cloud when it comes to relationships, and I don't realise all the hard that goes into it. I know you have to be happy. I just think that you have to be reasonable, and that you can't just give up on a relatoinship for silly reasons, and give up straight away.

If it's okay for a woman (or man) to just let themselves go physically, is it okay for the spouse to have sex outside of marriage?

If a woman thinks to herself that I am going to get fat now. I am no longer going to care what my partner thinks and just put weight on, and her partner voices their opinion on this, and says they don't want it, but she continues, that is not on. Because she has to take her partners thoughts into consideration. However, if a woman reaches a stage in her life, where the pounds aren't as easy to shift, and it' something she is struggling with, I think her partner should be understanding of that.

. It's a covenant between two people in which both people hope to mutually benefit from. It is only viable as long as both parties feel they are benefiting.

I agree, both parties do need to get things out of it. I just think there is more to consider in a relationship than if someones gained weight.

If my wife let herself go and became unattractive to me, I would probably feel like I'm not getting as much out of the relationship as I should be. I would take it as a personal insult as well since there is a pride factor involved as well. It would undermine much of our relationship.

If you no longer find your partner attractive, I don't think that would be purely down to just gaining wait, it would be down to the lack of respect, and consideration of your feelings also. I think that there would have to be more things at fault than simply gaining weight.

When this 'boy' becomes a 'man' he'll know what life is all about when it comes to relationships!

I'm sure he will.

Thanks for the comments guys x

Shallow or not at least the guy was up-front and made his intentions known. It's your friend’s choice if she can live with that or not. Too many people do not let their true feeling be known to their partners before getting too serious or even married, and then it's too late. More people should state what they want out of life first before things go too far. As for the guy, he will either find a woman that will accept that attitude, or he will find himself lonely. Your GF would be to blame if she stuck with him but disagreed with his wishes. Personally, I think this guy’s standard will change as he gets older himself and discovers that relationships are a two-way street. For now, while you’re young, go for the gold. You shouldn't eat pizza if you really want a burger