This is not uncommon many of us have racist and or homophobic parents or grandparents, segregation wasn’t that long ago and open homosexuality rather recent as well. For the targets of racism progress can’t come fast enough but objectively it is happening quite fast. Children’s almost instinctual desire to be different from there parents is one reason for this.

Younger racists are mostly drawing on personal experience to justify their beliefs. However I don’t think a cab driver whose been robed 5 times by black males is racist if he exhibits trepidation for taking another black male fare. Eyesight is our main, first, and most reliable sense for gauging whether or not someone or something is a threat to us. This will not change until certain stereotypes have no bases in fact.

Homosexuals as a group have the unchallengeable bible as an unfortunate hurtle on their road to acceptance. Difficult to say how long that will take.

I know this is somewhat off topic, just a pet peeve of mine, but I really hate the wanton misuse of the term "homophobic". Phobic means "fear", not dislike. It's a gay rights ploy to paint anyone who dislikes the gay agenda as afraid. Just more PC thought control through language.

I'm neither for nor against gay rights personally, I really couldn't care less who someone else is screwing (and frankly don't want to know), but I refuse to let the PC crowd try to corrupt my language in an obvious control attempt. Homophobia means fear of homosexuals not dislike of or opposition to homosexuals or their agenda.

Sorry, like I said, just a pet peeve. Nice article otherwise.

I know this is somewhat off topic, just a pet peeve of mine, but I really hate the wanton misuse of the term "homophobic". Phobic means "fear", not dislike. It's a gay rights ploy to paint anyone who dislikes the gay agenda as afraid. Just more PC thought control through language.

Maybe you should try and come up with a word because that’s the only word there is to describe someone who dislikes gays. Actually homophobic is correct for religious based disapproval of homosexuals. It’s the fear if you don’t openly object to homosexuals you will incur Gods wrath again.

I have a pet peeve for a groups struggle to not be discriminated against being described as an “agenda”.

a·gen·da
n. pl. a·gen·das

1. A list or program of things to be done or considered.

Seems appropriate for any movement to me regardless of their desired result. Exactly what did you think "agenda" means?

Actually homophobic is correct for religious based disapproval of homosexuals.

Aaaah, so an objection based upon moral or religious grounds must be based upon fear? I suppose that means that if someone refuses to fight in a war or objects to that war based upon moral or religious beliefs it's really an objection based upon fear?

hadephobia - the fear of Hell
enosiophobia - fear of having committed an unpardonable sin
homophobia - fear of homosexuals

Nope, just doesn't seem to apply in that context either.


A better word? How about something honest like anti-gay or anti-homosexual?

Seems appropriate for any movement to me regardless of their desired result. Exactly what did you think "agenda" means?

The word agenda implies a plan by a person or a group. If used by a person or group to describe a person or a group that they dislike it implies a subversive or harmful plan objective. It also belittles the person or groups struggle by saying it’s a mere agenda. Don’t take my word for it walk up to black guy and describe the black races fight for equality as the “black agenda”, he’ll explain it to you.

Aaaah, so an objection based upon moral or religious grounds must be based upon fear? I suppose that means that if someone refuses to fight in a war or objects to that war based upon moral or religious beliefs it's really an objection based upon fear?

Yes, fear of what they think might happen to their soul. I’ve heard the story of Sodom & Gomorrah brought up in a sermon about the evils of homosexuality many times.

This is a nice article, Sally, and I can really relate.

My grandparents tend to have racist attitudes. They still use language that I consider racist or hurtful, although they don't understand the harm. It's just something natural to them.

However, despite my grandfather's inappropriate use of the word "negro" (this is not the only racist word or phrase I've heard him use...I've also heard him talk about "jewing someone down"...meaning haggling over a price, among other things!) to describe a black person, back when he was coaching basketball during a time when blacks were either not served at restaurants or forced to eat in the kitchen, he would not take his team to eat anywhere that they couldn't all sit together as a team, ALL races. I've heard many stories of many tolerant and progressive things he did during that time in his career.

He also had many friends and colleagues who were black, and I never saw him treat them any differently than anyone else.

I try not to judge people (especially older ones) who have those kind of attitudes/ideas or use that type of language unless they act on them. The important thing is how we treat people, and clearly in THAT way your dad is kind and friendly. That's what matters, I think.

I really hate the wanton misuse of the term "homophobic". Phobic means "fear", not dislike.

Not quite. The Greek word phobia is derived from φόβος (phobos), which in its original Homeric sense meant flight, or panic. (Interestingly Greek seems to have as many different words for fear as for love). The modern English word 'phobia' means an intense fear, dislike or aversion. Now, with homophobia there is certainly dislike and aversion, but it is quite arguable that fear is lurking somewhere there too, at least according to the good Dr. Freud . (Even if not, two out of three is enough to make -phobia appropriate).

It seems your pet peeve has come about because you have mixed up two quite different things. One is opposition to the 'gay agenda', which as you rightfully say might well come about through principled ethical or religious motives, rather than any hatred or fear. The other thing, which certainly also exists, is an irrational dislike, aversion - and yes, usually fear - that causes some people to behave with malice and sometimes extreme violence towards homosexuals.

In your defence, it has sometimes seemed that some gay rights activists deliberately confuse the two things in order to, for example, tar principled religious conservatives with the same brush as the kind of scum that brutally murdered Matthew Shephard.

I think it is useful to make the distinction between those who have a principled religious or philosophical opposition to homosexuality, with which I disagree but with which I can at least argue rationally, and those homophobes, who motivated by fear, dislike and aversion, express their feeling (rather than thought) through a range of unkindness beginning at the verbal level and sometimes ending with sickening violence. I think this useful distinction is something that both you and certain gay rights militants ought to acknowledge.

OK, I concede that the secondarydefinition of phobia is "A strong fear, dislike, or aversion", but the commonly used definition of the word relates to fear and it's much abused in this context.

It seems your pet peeve has come about because you have mixed up two quite different things. One is opposition to the 'gay agenda', which as you rightfully say might well come about through principled ethical or religious motives, rather than any hatred or fear. The other thing, which certainly also exists, is an irrational dislike, aversion - and yes, usually fear - that causes some people to behave with malice and sometimes extreme violence towards homosexuals.

No, I have "mixed up" nothing. I understand perfectly that there are those who object to homosexuality on moral grounds and some who are simply hateful towards anyone who is different. My peeve here stems from the abuse and misuse of common language in order to propogate social engineering.

I hate nor fear anyone but that doesn't mean I agree with everyone. While I may voice my opinions I never try to twist language in order to try and redefine basic social definitions in my favor. It's dishonest and disingenuous.

He believed that you should stick to your own. A belief that many people share with him

I do not think he is a racist at all. I had a Professor, a Hoale Professor who believed in the sort of things yoyr Father believes. But he was the fairest and the most decent human being I have ever met. Unlike LIBERALS who are just hyprcrites such men stand up for their beliefs. So quit calling you father a racist. He is not. Old fashioned may be, but not a racist.

While I may voice my opinions I never try to twist language in order to try and redefine basic social definitions in my favor.

I'm interested in what you mean by this. It seems to me to be quite a leap from coining a word to describe an unfortunate and irrational malice, and 'social engineering'.

Hoale

I really despise that word (haole). I find it very much akin to the "n word" only directed toward white people. It's a hateful word.

First of all I'm regretting using the word homophobic, but as someone said it is due to lack of a better word, so sorry if it annoyed anyone.

This is not uncommon many of us have racist and or homophobic parents or grandparents, segregation wasn’t that long ago and open homosexuality rather recent as well.

Yep, my grandparents are the same, and they don't say it with hatred, it just isn't the world that they are used to.

Eyesight is our main, first, and most reliable sense for gauging whether or not someone or something is a threat to us. This will not change until certain stereotypes have no bases in fact.

Some people don't want to believe that stereotypes are there because there is some kind of fact to them. Though I don't think that is any excuse for judging everyone to be the same because the look a certain way. Unfortunately stereotypes are useful to us because they allow us to make judgements in a quick and easy manner, and we are suckers for things that are quick and easy!

just a pet peeve of mine, but I really hate the wanton misuse of the term "homophobic". Phobic means "fear", not dislike.

I completely understand what you are saying here Mason, and though my Dad does dislike them, I do actually think there is a fear there too. Because he doesn't understand them, and he doesn't understand where they are coming from. Maybe fear is the wrong word...I don't know.

They still use language that I consider racist or hurtful, although they don't understand the harm. It's just something natural to them.

Mine do too, and it is even more difficult now with having Maddy around. I don't hold it against them at all, they just have their way of doing things. Also, the situation is very difficult to approach with them, because I have so much respect for them, and I do not want to tell them what is right and wrong.

try not to judge people (especially older ones) who have those kind of attitudes/ideas or use that type of language unless they act on them. The important thing is how we treat people, and clearly in THAT way your dad is kind and friendly. That's what matters, I think.

I agree. If my Dads behaviour towards them was rude and awful, I would be completely ashamed. However, I think if his feelings were that strong, and they lead to him acting like that, that I would be different. He would of made more of an effort to make me think the same way, and maybe I would of shared some of his beliefs. He's not a bad man at all, it's just his generation.

Chakgogka, your comment got my insightful, thank you.

But he was the fairest and the most decent human being I have ever met. Unlike LIBERALS who are just hyprcrites such men stand up for their beliefs. So quit calling you father a racist. He is not. Old fashioned may be, but not a racist.

My Dad is a great man, and I love him dearly. He would help anyone, and he is a good person. He is racist though. He has an issue with people who have a different colour skin. He judges people before he gets to know them, because of that. He isn't a hardcore racist by a long shot. He does have some racist views though, and this is something he freely admits.

Thanks for all the comments x

Sally,

First of all, this is another good piece. You Dad and my parents share a lot of similar traits. I've had 'discussions' with them over the years and have ended up basically agreeing to disagree.

The funny thing is that my wife is of mixed blood (her father is Anglo-Australian and her mother is Indian). I was concerned my parents would not like her or take our relationship well. But, like your Dad, they accepted her completely because she was part of the family. I find this to by somewhat hypocritical but am glad none the less.

Bahu,

I do not think he is a racist at all... Old fashioned may be, but not a racist.

I disagree with this. I know plenty of 'old-fashioned' people who don't share any of my parent's views. Incidentally, what does 'Hoare' mean? I've not heard the word before.

I really despise that word (haole). I find it very much akin to the "n word" only directed toward white people. It's a hateful word.

OK No offence intended. I went to Grad School at UH Manoa and picked up that slang. I do not think it carries the same sot of undertones as the other word.