"Conversation should be pleasant without scurrility, witty without affectation, free without indecency, learned without conceitedness, novel without falsehood."

I watched a television documentary last night that was about the Muslims that are living in Britain today. There is 1.8 Million Muslims here. This show was digging into just what they wanted, and what would make them happy living here. I guess the free education and healthcare just isn't enough. They did a survey that interviewed over 1000 Muslims from all over England. They interviewed many on their own, and the programme basically told you what they had found out and showed some of these interviews and it tried to give you a wide view of Muslims. To be honest the views and beliefs they hold are pretty varied. The people who made this programme believe this is why things haven't turned to nasty so far regarding relations between Muslims and everyone else. They believe once they do start standing together on certain issues, and they feel that they aren't getting listened to, things could take a turn for the worse. This programme gave me a great insight into just what they think. People who live in the same area as me, who I see on a regular basis. Yet do I have any Muslim friends? I am ashamed to say that I don't. Not intentional on my part. I just don't like people. That's not the point though, this programme gave me insight into just what Muslims feel, who are supposedly integrated into our society.

93% of those Muslims surveyed believe themselves to be highly religious. That isn't something very shocking. However, out of those that were surveyed it found the younger generations were much more religious than their parents and grandparents. Muslims are becoming more religious, not less. Even though apparently these younger generations are much more integrated into our society than their parents, they are turning to religion more and more for the answers they are looking for. It is also widely believed that those that turn to extreme measures to get their point across are angry young men, from poor areas, that aren't educated. This simply isn't the case. Knowledge is power, the more educated they become, and the more they learn, the more it seems they feel passionately about their beliefs, and their religion. It seems they put a great amount of emphasis on religion, but they live in a society, in a country, that on the whole, doesn't. At some point this is going to lead to conflict. Whether we like it or not.

When asked about their thoughts on terroist attacks, many of them agreed with the terroist attacks and conspiracy theories that go with them. By a large majority, the Sept 11th attacks were dismissed as an act of the American government and nothing else. They also believe that the London Attacks here were for a good enough reason. In their opinion they were commited by young men who felt that they weren't getting listened to, and in their minds the only way that they would be listened to was by commiting such an act. So many people have died in Iraq, yet they don't all get a minutes silence, but those that died in the London Bombings do. These are the comments made by Muslims who were interviewed, they sound bitter and angry about such things. That their suffering is not recognised. They also believe the conspiracy theories about Princess Diana, she was killed because they could not allow a Muslim in the royal family, and if she had a baby...woahhh...that could never happen! They seem to believe that we are completely against them, and they constantly feel they have to justify and fight their own corners. No wonder there is such anger amongst them.

I think one of the key factors that was pointed out in this programme was just how different our lifestyles are to those Muslims that live around us. We drink, smoke, have sex before marriage, some of us our gay. To muslims this is just completely wrong, and any Muslims that were interviewed commented on how difficult they found it to balance their religion with British society. Four out of ten of those interviewed were offended by British behaviour. They don't like how women are seen as sexual objects, how men go out and get drunk, they don't agree with how we bring our children up, and believe that we should be much stricter with them. Half of Muslims don't want gay people to work in our schools, and believe them to be a lost cause and not normal.

There are many stereotypes flying about regarding Muslims, and what the British think of them. The relationship is not becoming any easier. 66% of Muslim women cover their faces here. In the eyes of the British they see this, generally, as a negative thing. They fee that Muslim women are treated as second class citizens and are made to do this. When in reality that simply isn't the case. Many of them want to do it, and they want to do it as a sign of dedication to their religion. No one made them do it.

Then there are other Muslims, who believe by living here, and enjoying what Britain has to offer you have to take on the laws of the land, and respect what happens here. That you have to take the good with the bad, and you have a choice. You don't have to be here if you don't wish to be. You made that choice, and you made it because you wanted to enjoy the resources that are available to you here. So then why turn your nose up at the way we choose to live our lives. We aren't keeping you here. If you don't like it, leave. In their eyes it is that simple.

Many Muslims simply would like to see everyone in Britain become Muslim. Islam is superior, and man made laws are not the answer, we should live by the laws of religion. Half of muslims want to send their children to Islamic Schools. Where they feel they will be taught correctly. They want England to be an Islamic state. For the greater good. Even now many parents send their children to Islamic schools at the weekends, so they can recieve the correct teachings.

Now as I said earlier the main problem for Muslims is, they don't feel they speak with one voice, and they don't feel they are represented by anyone. 86% feels no Muslim group represents them. No one speaks out for them, and what they want. And what is the one thing they want? Well that is......they don't agree with freedom of speech, that in their eyes should have its limits, and this is something they really do have their knickers in a twist about. They believe that what Britain needs the most is boundaries and limitations, and people should not be allowed to speak out about Muslims, and insult their religion. An example is the Danish cartoons. They were highly offended by these, and believe they should be stopped. 78% think the cartoonists should be punished.

Currently the police here are not helping the relationships and just adding to the unease. Four out of ten said that they felt the police harrassed Muslims, and 56% fear they will be a victim of religious persecution. Many believe that they are doing all they can to flush out extremists in their community. 8 out of 10 believe that anyone who knows of a terroist attack and does not take action, is as guilty as those actually doing it. Blair created tension when he commented on how the Muslim community was not helping with inquiries. They want to be seen in a positive light, and like they are helping. Because many of them are, and they feel they are continually just percvieved in a negative light. With some of the views that were put forward in this programme, I would say it would be difficult not to be.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Aug 08, 2006
Well written article Sally.

As a person who spent 7 years living in Japan I would have to say to all those Muslims a hearty STFU and leave England and go home.
Nothing pissed me off more while in Japan working than other Americans or Westerners that would come to work and do nothing but bitch about Japan and the culture. When you are in another country that is not your own, you need to STFU and get along or move out.

Then especially to have some say they want England to become an islamic state, those people should be bounced immediately. If they are citizens of the country then they do and should have a say in things. In America we have Miami that has been larged populated by various Latin groups. I don't mind if they speak Spanish (and English), have their own culture, but the minute they say we want America to change to our tune they cross the line.
on Aug 08, 2006

I would have to say to all those Muslims a hearty STFU and leave England and go home.

Very well put.

on Aug 08, 2006
The only difference between a Muslim Democracy and a Muslim Theocracy is a Muslim Democracy chooses their own dictators. This is the only freedom there’re even remotely interested in. They don’t want anything to do with “western” concepts of freedom of speech, religion and the press and certainly not the separation of church and state.

They think that if you tolerate non-Muslims you’re a bad Muslim and even the Pope is an infidel. I wonder what the think when we point at them and call them evil?
on Aug 08, 2006

Well written article Sally.

Thanks

Then especially to have some say they want England to become an islamic state, those people should be bounced immediately. If they are citizens of the country then they do and should have a say in things

They do have a say, as you said.  They just feel they aren't listened  and not represented, but I am at a loss, to just how much more we could make them feel welcome, and even if we should?  Which isn't a nice thing to say at all, but it makes you wonder where it will all end.

This is the only freedom there’re even remotely interested in. They don’t want anything to do with “western” concepts of freedom of speech, religion and the press and certainly not the separation of church and state.

I would have to agree.  They seem to be extremely dismissive of our way of life, and rather than embrace it, they just pick apart what is wrong with it.  They made the decision to come here, so they should learn to accept it and live with it, or go where they feel comfortable.  End of.

Thanks for the comments x

on Aug 08, 2006
Loved reading this article Sally. The first thing that "shocked" me is when you said:

Yet do I have any Muslim friends? I am ashamed to say that I don't.

Why ashamed? I dont have any orthodoxe friends, should I be ashamed? I dont think you should feel ashamed for such a thing. It's another way to say to muslims, oh poor you you're right, we're mean to you.

To get back to the rest of the article, i think that they turn to Religion to emphasize their identity. In a context of globalisation, some people are probably scared of losing their roots. There is a part of the world that wants to uniformize the rest of the world. It's normal that some cling to what makes them different and original. It is sad that these chose terrorism as a way to fight it. Like you mentioned in the article they believe that it's the only way for them to be heard.

The problem with this population is that they victimize themselves too much. Kind of like in a pity party. Instead of doing something positive they try to destroy the things they disagree with. And they explain there attitude with something like no one ever cared about us. Well get over it and develop your countries with infrastructures such as hospitals and schools.

Just my sixpence but very interesting article Sally
on Aug 08, 2006
Very interesting article, Sally. I will get back to you with some more salient comments. I need to think about this first.

on Aug 09, 2006

Why ashamed? I dont have any orthodoxe friends, should I be ashamed? I dont think you should feel ashamed for such a thing. It's another way to say to muslims, oh poor you you're right, we're mean to you.

You have a point Em, I didn't really think of it like that.  I guess I said that because the main point of the progamme was we don't know because we don't ask them, and how will I ever know if I don't even know any myself - I hope that makes sense

i think that they turn to Religion to emphasize their identity. In a context of globalisation, some people are probably scared of losing their roots.

I agree, I think that when they find things difficult and hard, religion is the one consistent thing in their life, that doesn't have to change.  So it provides a safety blanket for them.

And they explain there attitude with something like no one ever cared about us. Well get over it and develop your countries with infrastructures such as hospitals and schools.

Fiesty Em, I like it!  You get a cookie for that comment

Very interesting article, Sally. I will get back to you with some more salient comments. I need to think about this first.

I look forward to it Maso

on Aug 09, 2006
A good article. The thing that worries me most about young muslims is that they are consistently being exposed to the vitriol of the Imams when they attend Friday prayers. It happens in Britain and it happens here in the Middle East. This vitriol has stepped up mightily in the mosques since the Lebanon troubles began. It has reached the stage when a "sermon" turns into a complete condemnation of Israel, the UK, the USA and any other Western values or ideals. Did you ever hear your vicar tell the congregation that Prescott was a plonker, the Labour party was down at heel, or, even, God forbid, that Islam was evil? Never. Friday in many mosques, not all, is propaganda hour.
on Aug 09, 2006
"a "sermon" turns into a complete condemnation of Israel, the UK, the USA and any other Western values or ideals."

It seems to be political Islam that is growing more than Islam itself.
on Aug 09, 2006
Fiesty Em, I like it! You get a cookie for that comment

yumm... i love cookies

I guess I said that because the main point of the progamme was we don't know because we don't ask them, and how will I ever know if I don't even know any myself - I hope that makes sense

Yes it makes sense I suppose you're right. Dont blame yourself though: how can you know someone who doesnt even want to mingle with you or anybody that is like you? Know what I mean?
on Aug 10, 2006

It has reached the stage when a "sermon" turns into a complete condemnation of Israel, the UK, the USA and any other Western values or ideals

This is why so many young Muslims are becoming angry and bitter about the situation.  What can we expect if they are filled with hate on a daily basis.  For them not to react?

yumm... i love cookies

They go straight to my hips

Dont blame yourself though: how can you know someone who doesnt even want to mingle with you or anybody that is like you? Know what I mean?

Yep, I agree babes, you're right!

Thanks for the comments x

on Aug 10, 2006
I've got Muslim friends, plus there is a Large Muslim family in another wise White area in same street. The family dont mix with the rest of us out side of school, (6 kids), my youngest goes to school with the eldest two boys, and walks to and fro with them, no probs. The biggest problem i've found is they shout racist attack at any opportunity, and they simply wont accept us as we are in UK, yet we are expected to 'welcome them with open arms', and accept their customs,and religion,........... WHY cant they do the same for us????????

If they dont like the way us Brits are,................. why stay?......... They do after all have there own 'home lands'.

Either join in with us or leave.
on Aug 10, 2006
Either join in with us or leave

Exactly!
on Aug 11, 2006
hey sally,that was really good

i really want to say a few things. Its just the nature of the religion that is Islam which believes in spreading Islamism to any extent, it's anti idol worshipping,and that is one of the main reasons they grew furious when the Danish cartoonist drew Prophet Muhammad's face,because its unsacred for their Allah to have any close resemblance to idolism.

The women and their hidden faces is not a part of their accepatence towards their religion but a choiceless option.THey cant fight it,but they can force feed it in themselves,and conciously reverse it to the height of it being sub-concious.

I have absolutely nothing against this religion,in fact my best friend is a muslim,he drinks,he smokes up and might even be gay who knows.But the truth is that Islam as a religion refuses to stay as a minority group,under any circumstances.Its not them,its just what they believe in.
on Aug 12, 2006

The biggest problem i've found is they shout racist attack at any opportunity, and they simply wont accept us as we are in UK, yet we are expected to 'welcome them with open arms', and accept their customs,and religion,........... WHY cant they do the same for us????????

Well said....at the moment I feel like it is us that has to make the changes, when reality this is our country, and we have the right to live the way we want to live.  We aren't Muslim, because we don't want to be, however, we do respect the way they live, so why can't they do it for us?

But the truth is that Islam as a religion refuses to stay as a minority group,under any circumstances.Its not them,its just what they believe in.

Thanks for that comment.  It is what they believe in, and I respect that, but they make the choices to come here.  So they need to be a little accepting of how life is here, and I know the majority are, it just appears they are getting more and more unsettled here!

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