"Conversation should be pleasant without scurrility, witty without affectation, free without indecency, learned without conceitedness, novel without falsehood."

I remember when the London Bombings happened, a friend of mine got on a bus a few days later. Looking at her you would presume she is Muslim, even though in fact she is mixed race. She had just finished work and was on her way to the gym. She had her gym bag with her. Not a suspect looking bag or anything. She said she got so many odd looks off people, and she had no idea why. People were looking at her suspiciously, and watching her every move. She really didn't have a clue why. It was only afterwards, when she thought about it, she realised what it was about. People were suspicious of her, and her bag, and what she had in it. She fully understood, and wasn't offended at all. She even commented that in the same situation, she might of done the same thing. People were scared, and paranoid, and worried about their safety. So fair play to them.

The same thing as happened again. Two young Muslim men were kicked off a flight here, because other passengers feared they were suicide bombers. They had flown to Malaga for the day from Manchester, to check out a place they were going to on holiday later in the year. They were chatting to each other in Urdu. Six travellers refused to board, and in the end they were asked to leave by the captain. The passengers were suspicious because they had only visited the place for the day. They were quizzed and released without charge. And why did they go through all this? Well that's because of the paranoid state the world is in at the moment, and it would seem that Muslims are getting the raw end of the deal.

Just because we are scared, and we have suffered, does that mean we now have the right to judge people on the way they look, and the colour of their skin? Every Muslim we now see, are we to be scared of, and wonder in the back of our minds if they are a suicide bomber? We can't live our lives that way, it isn't fair to anyone. Lots of Muslims are just as worried as the rest of us, they are in the same position we are, and they don't need situations like that happening to them. That isn't going to do anyone any favours. More and more Muslims are turning to extreme measures to get their points heard, and situations like that are only gong to give them even more ammunition against us. Just because of what's happened, that doesn't give us the right to be racist.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Aug 24, 2006
You know, I think this was an over-reaction on part of the Captain of the plane. Kicking these guys off indicates to me he didn't trust what they had to say, their reasons for travel etc. This sort of paranoia doesn't serve any positive purpose. I believe, if anything, this creates animosity in people where none previously existed.

I equate it to a Captain kicking off a couple of Irish people because he thinks they might be IRA.

In answer to your heading question, I say no. There is no excuse for racism, as far as I'm concerned.
on Aug 24, 2006
View this CNN report in which Lou Dobbs assails the government for the lies of the official story of what happened.
www.spikedhumor.com/articles/47270/Lou_Dobbs_CNN_Report_About_9_11_Investigation_Mistakes.html
on Aug 24, 2006
you would presume she is Muslim, even though in fact she is mixed race.


muslim is notta race. adherents of islam (which literally means 'submit to god') describe themselves and are described as muslims ('ones who submit to god').

muslims include people of all races who profess the tenets of islam.

it's more than a bit ironic malcom x, who came to islam by way of the 'nation of islam' (members of which are commonly referred to as black muslims even tho they're not accepted as true muslims by most traditional islamic sects), was america's most outspoken black separatist until he made the hajj (a pilgrimage to mecca--one of the obligations required of muslims). after returning to the states, malcolm gave an amazing speech about how the hajj had changed him in which he said:

"In the past, yes, I have made sweeping indictments of all white people. I will never be guilty of that again — as I know now that some white people are truly sincere, that some truly are capable of being brotherly toward a black man. The true Islam has shown me that a blanket indictment of all white people is as wrong as when whites make blanket indictments against blacks.

Since I learned the truth in Mecca my dearest friends have come to include all kinds — some Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, agnostics, and even atheists! I have friends who are called capitalists, socialists, and communists! Some of my friends are moderates, conservatives, extremists — some are even Uncle Toms! My friends today are black, brown, red, yellow, and white!

While in Mecca, for the first time in my life, I could call a man with blond hair and blue eyes my brother."
on Aug 24, 2006
in other words, perhaps you title shoulda been" 'does fear justify jumping to conclusions about people who don't appear to be of northern european descent?'

most of your respondents seem to believe it does and will continue to do so until the day the terrorists turn out to be blue-eyed blondes, green-eyed redheads with alabaster skin or--despite this being beyond the realm of possibility of course--one of those frail elderly women in whom they invest so much faith and trust.
on Aug 24, 2006
It\'s amazing how often i hear \"those stupid [insert foreign people], why dont they fix their country.\" The soldier in iraq who raped and murdered the 14 year old girl and killed her family, he tells someone \"all iraqi\'s are evil\". What he/they don\'t realize is how we\'ve kindled the problems in so many (most?) of the countries that have such corruption etc today..

It\'s another nice eye opener. So many people are dying at the hands of these corrupt people as a result of their greed for power and control. It\'s really sickening.

watch the PBS documentary here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BJ5BQA3FIk&mode=related&search=
on Aug 24, 2006
We can try and be very liberal, but the fact is that any muslim is now viewed as either a terrorist or someone having links with them,so its but natural for anyone to be a little guarded against them, for obviously no fault of theirs.
on Aug 24, 2006

Nothing gives us the right to be racist

I agree

But when you think about it, the police profile all the time. If they get an APB on a "Suspected Mugger, White, 6'2, Male", they would be stupid to stop women, or blacks in trying to locate the mugger.

Yes I guess there are times when we can't get away from such judgements.

Serenity - Thanks for the comment.  I agree with what you say, people will always be fearful of certain things, and be more aware I am guilty of it myself, but sometimes people do use it as away to take advantage and take things a little to far.

I don't believe so, however, racism does give us the right to fear. (Please excuse the platitude.)

Ahh very clever

Congrats on the Feature! But let me make it clear that nothing justifies racism. And I dont think that is what you are describing here. Profiling, yes. But that is not racism.

Thanks Doc.  I think you have a point. 

Being suspicious of these people is profiling, they are acting in a way that causes you to think...hmm, uh oh, I could be in trouble.

The people on the plane I referred too weren't only suspicious though, they actually acted on it, and demanded action on their behalf.  I see what you're saying though, and I don't think that it was actual racism.  You and the Doc are so clever

If this is the event I think you are talking about...I read the men were Asian...

You are correct.  They were still judged, because some people don't think about it.

 

on Aug 24, 2006

It's not racism. It's prejudice.

Fair point.

It's totally natural, (IMHO), to be suspicious of wrong doers that meet a certain criteria, and to be cautious of being near them.

Yes I know, I just worry that we are taking it a little far.

I think this was an over-reaction on part of the Captain of the plane. Kicking these guys off indicates to me he didn't trust what they had to say, their reasons for travel etc. This sort of paranoia doesn't serve any positive purpose. I believe, if anything, this creates animosity in people where none previously existed.

Well said Maso

LW - You raise a very good point, and I agree that people will be aware of things, and looking after their own safety.  I just worry that it may be going a little to far.  If little things like this can happen, what is going to happen in the future?  Will they esculate?  Will they alienate people even more?  I don't think that is going to solve any of the problems we face at the moment.

Btw, sally, studies have shown that over 35% of British muslims sympathize with extremists, so know that at least one in three that you encounter there would just as soon see you dead. Is it racist to face facts?

I watched a television show recently that covered this topic and I was amazed at figures like that, and I realised that we are in a situation where we have to realise that people think like this.  I do understand the thinking of people on that plane.

most of your respondents seem to believe it does and will continue to do so until the day the terrorists turn out to be blue-eyed blondes, green-eyed redheads with alabaster skin or--despite this being beyond the realm of possibility of course--one of those frail elderly women in whom they invest so much faith and trust.

King, I really think you're wicked.  I've missed you around.  I realise until people can shake these thoughts and feelings off not alot is going to change.  People have these judgements in their heads, and  nothing is going to change them.  Which is unfortunate, but that's position we have found ourselves in.

We can try and be very liberal, but the fact is that any muslim is now viewed as either a terrorist or someone having links with them,so its but natural for anyone to be a little guarded against them, for obviously no fault of theirs.

You are right.  Agreed.

Thanks for all the comments x

on Aug 24, 2006
What might mitigate some of the irrational fear of Muslims would be for the VAST majority of them, who do not wish harm on anyone, to rise up and voice their outrage with what the fundamentalists are doing.

Judgement SHOULD be based on the character of another- it's just hard to assess that quickly in a stranger.

on Aug 24, 2006
What is wrong with using steroetypes to try to fight terrorism is this:

1) Terrorist will just hire someone who doesn't 'LOOK' Muslim, eastern, or whatever. And if you don't think someone will do it for the money, you are sadly mistaken.

2) You have just now alienated every person in the very culture you need help from to stop the terroris. Ask any police officer where most arrests and crime stopping comes from and they ill say tips from the community.

3) You have now helped the terrorist to enlist more people to help them due to the alienation.


Profiling is fine when done with some tactful way. You know who your looking for and how they 'fit' the description, but be careful and do not pigoen hole everyone into that profile because they look a specific way.
on Aug 24, 2006

1) Terrorist will just hire someone who doesn't 'LOOK' Muslim, eastern, or whatever.

Small Problem.  They are not hiring mercenaries.  They are hiring SUICIDE people.  And not many dedicated to the cause are going to sign up.

2) You have just now alienated every person in the very culture you need help from to stop the terroris.

No, you have driven some that were leaning that way there, but you have also pissed off others that want to live in peace to report "Mohammed" when he starts acting suspicious.

3) You have now helped the terrorist to enlist more people to help them due to the alienation.

redundant.

Simply put, NOT Profiling is stupid, albeit politically correct.  You are not going to convince a peace loving non-violent person to become suicidal because his brother is, unless he is already pre-disposed to it.  But then if he is already predisposed to it, no amount of coddling is going to sway him to the light side either.

on Aug 24, 2006
1) Terrorist will just hire someone who doesn't 'LOOK' Muslim, eastern, or whatever. And if you don't think someone will do it for the money, you are sadly mistaken.

There's more to the profile than looks: Age, gender, country of origin, recent travel, cultural/ethnic background, and much more all play a part.

Also, there probably aren't many people who will commit suicide for money alone.

That's why terrorists need to recruit based on ideology, rather than financial incentive. And that's why the profile targets people likely to be recruited to such a thing, and likely to give their lives for such a thing.

Race has nothing to do with it. It's more about age, gender, and cultural background. If terrorism sprang up in Scandinavia, based on some perversion of Viking teachings, we'd be profiling a lot of blond-haired blue-eyed Europeans. Not because of their race, though, but because people from certain regions, with certain cultural backgrounds are more likely to subscribe to the "neoviking" philosophy.

2) You have just now alienated every person in the very culture you need help from to stop the terroris. Ask any police officer where most arrests and crime stopping comes from and they ill say tips from the community.


It makes just as much sense to say that the community is suffering because they have first alienated the rest of society by not speaking up immediately when their beliefs were first perverted by murderous thugs; and by not forcefully exiling and shunning the asshats would would bring down the wrath of the world on their heads and the heads of all who associated with them.

3) You have now helped the terrorist to enlist more people to help them due to the alienation.


Except that there's no evidence at all that terrorist organizations can't keep their numbers high simply by leveraging the background level of alienation felt by all people in all times and places.

I'm not saying JoeKnowledge is wrong. Okay, I am, a little bit. But what I'm really trying to say is, there's more than one way to look at this situation.
on Aug 24, 2006
Doc,

Simply put, NOT Profiling is stupid, albeit politically correct.


I just can't agree with this. Profiling based purely on looks is only going to alienate more and more people. Take my wife (no, seriously). Born of an Australian father and Indian mother, she could be easily mistaken for someone from the middle East, as has happened. Or she could be mistaken for a New Zealander, as has happened. Or she could be mistaken for an islander, as has happened. What if she were on a plane trip somewhere overseas and was asked to get off because of her appearance? How upset do you think she'd be? How upset do you think I'd be?

Another example: a friend of mine, an Australian born and bred, who happens to have olive skin (his surname is Scottish), was taken off a plane from London to New York recently. He was searched, his luggage was searched and he missed his connecting flight to LA because of the delay. This was despite the fact that he had a valid Australian passport. Now I'm saying passports can't be forged. But you would only have to speak to my friend to realise he is not a terrorist. But he was subjected to this humiliation because of profiling.

I just don't believe this is the way to go.
on Aug 24, 2006

I just can't agree with this. Profiling based purely on looks is only going to alienate more and more people. Take my wife (no, seriously). Born of an Australian father and Indian mother, she could be easily mistaken for someone from the middle East, as has happened. Or she could be mistaken for a New Zealander, as has happened. Or she could be mistaken for an islander, as has happened. What if she were on a plane trip somewhere overseas and was asked to get off because of her appearance? How upset do you think she'd be? How upset do you think I'd be?

The problem with comments is you dont see them all.  And that is my sin here.  I totally believe in profiling, BUT, not stopping the searches of non-profiled people. (that was another blog).

Quite simply, NOT looking for the DESCRIBED perps is stupid. Yes, you do find some innocents.  But IGNORING them is more stupid as that is who you are looking for!

I see your wife and raise you mine.  She is American.  Born and bread.  Her parents are from Mexico.  Should our border patrol NOT stop them and ask?  And if you want to know, no, they expect it.

But every time we go across, they are given a double take.  After all (well even I do since I am darker), they fit the profile.

I have a lot of respect for you. Even more so now.  But until you get on that plane, I guess you will just be theorizing.  And truth be told, so would I.

What I hate the most is not what they have done, but what they have made us do!  Put on your ST helmet and remember what Chief OBrian told the Cardassians.

I dont hate you, I hate what you made me do.

That is what I hate.

on Aug 24, 2006
\"We... I made my position clear about this war on terror and I... by the way, the enemy made their position clear, yet again, when they... when we are able to stop them.\" --- GWB

The transcript doesn’t do it justice... you gotta watch this for knee-slapping comedy.

Fox News: www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCbNFvrgiaI&mode=related&search=
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